fish bladder glue processing

Place all the strips into a pot

Cook it in low heat

Drying

drying

dry out and stored

Yuhua,

Good job. Have you ever tried soaking the bladders and running them through a meat grinder, like the Korean bowyers do, instead of cutting them?


T

For how long did you cook this stuff? You say low temperature but how low? Is temeperature under boiling or it is much lower?

Thomas Duvernay wrote:

Have you ever tried soaking the bladders and running them through a meat grinder
T

Yes! I soak the thin strips in refrigerater for a day or two,but not using grinder instead, During the cooking process I'll let it cool down and pull them into a grinder(for fruit juice) ,filter it then keep cooking till done.

Rapsod wrote:

For how long did you cook this stuff? You say low temperature but how low? Is temeperature under boiling or it is much lower?

About 20~22 hours. The temperature is way below boiling point about 60~70 degree C.

Can you add: (1) species of fish, (2) name in Chinese, (3) actual temperature for boilng the glue? I would like to extract your enofirmation as a shoprt article and post it in the index.

Is the glue strong?

Stephen,

The variety the Korean bowyers use is the brown croaker (Miichthys miiuy; 民魚). As for temperature, I know the bowyer varied it at different points of the gluing process.


T

SW,

The glue is extremely strong, but also flexible. If you look in the TBB volume where Tim Baker talked about relative glue strengths, fish airbladder glue was near the very top.


T

Stephen Selby wrote:

Can you add: (1) species of fish, (2) name in Chinese, (3) actual temperature for boilng the glue? I would like to extract your enofirmation as a shoprt article and post it in the index.

It is a kind of giant and rare(grow into this size) croaker "鮸魚" in Chinese.
The temperature is 60~70 degree C must be kept eyes on it from over heat.

At what temperature does the fish air bladder glue begin to gel? I am wondering what a good temperature for my room would be to glue up, and still keep it liquid.

Samuraiwarrior wrote:

Is the glue strong?

Yes, I have done some test to compare with hide glue,it is stronger then hide glue and like Thomas said the greatest charactor is its flexability. There will be no cracking sound when braceing the bow very first time.
Also recently I experience a failure of open a new bow,and the reason I check after is not the glue but the horn quality. I put strips of horn that had been treat by my supplier which was burning in hot oil to flattening the horn. It is over heat and carbonized easy to crack. I already remove the strip and try to replace a piece of good quality horn(not heat treated).
Finger crossed! hope it can be fixed. I'll post the pictures of this fixing project if it is succeed. That is a good experience for me to learn the fixing job I think.

Also I want to know, what is the ratio of ounces of bladders to ounces of dried glue? I am going to be making some of this glue soon, and I am sorry I have so many questions.

Samuraiwarrior wrote:

Also I want to know, what is the ratio of ounces of bladders to ounces of dried glue? .

Almost everything will turn into the glue,If you have done it right,I say 99.5% will become glue. The small amount of residual were then consume by me and it tastes like scallop quite delicious. Also when cooking beef stew, in the end a small amount of glue I made will be added. That stew taste 10 times better. :D

Samuraiwarrior wrote:

I am going to be making some of this glue soon.

And where you gonna get the bladders you want?

I want to add here, bladders of other fishes are equally suitable for glue. I have used bladders of a giant catfish, gillbacker - the glue was as good as the croaker glue. Of course the sturgeon bladders are very good too, and I also used white hake bladders. Carp bladders were too tough to dissolve easily.

The main consideration seems to be the size of bladders (large is more economical to harvest) and the soft structure, allowing easy melting into glue.

Turkish bowyers added fish glue to their tendon glue.

Adam

Yokhua,
I am going to be getting them from Thomas in Korea. They are Yellow Croaker.

It might be brown croaker--Korean sources say both types.


T

Thanks for all that info Yokhua. If you don't mind I have a few questions...

1. I've read that when using fish bladder glue it's too thick to be absorbed by the horns and that you need to weaken it down with sinew glue so it can be absorbed properly (even with teh grooving of the horn and wood core). Is this true?

2. I've read that fish bladder glue absorbs moisture from the air and that this can be countered by adding the addition of tannin?

3. I read that there is a method of cold processing fish bladder glue that makes the glue stronger. Has anyone ever done this?

As for the first question, the Korean bowyer simply thins the glue with water; the consistency is thin enough to size both the horn and core. The other two questions I have no knowledge about.


T

Gday Thomas, thanks... do you know what sort of proportions of glue to water is used? Is there a particular consistancy to look for?

When the bowyer first makes it, it is really watery thin and soupy. As it boils down, it thickens up; if the bowyer is still sizing the horn and core, he'll add water to keep it thinned down. Korean bowyers tend to do things the old fashioned way--not measure and go by experience. There are many questions people ask me and I wish the bowyer could still freely answer; however, due to his paralysis, it is nearly impossible.


T

Cheers Thomas... and please thank the bowyer for me also :)

[external image]

this two days i make 8 croaker blaaders glue, long is 5cm and wide is 2 cm, the result of glue color and more alike, when the small blaader turn more big and fat and white in warm water , these blaaders quality more differ, it seemed the transparency blaader is good than others, and my plan make it max intensity, abortive ，need a tool (绞肉机？石磨?捣/椿烂？）

i'm use a 热水带(a soft plastics pocket pouch it can full more aboil water but it's surface is not very hot 70c-80c) , a quilt and a terrycloth for keep the temperature not so hight and so low

[external image]

now, i do this dry step, when the glue in icebox geling, cut it small square
,i 'm surprise it in more than 20c room can keep the gel, a electronics fan for dry the glue fast ,

i'm pray success

total 6$ i spend for buy the bladers :D

next time try make glue again, add some vitriol and ??? and ??? at this dry step

I owe some fish bladder glue to people, but the hot, humid summer is not the time to try making it. I have a bowl of gelled glue in the fridge and will dry it out when conditions permit.

in fact, today these glue day about 90%,it is not putrid, and result of dryed glue differ to yuhua made,it is yellow,

Last summer I visited my Grandparents in Shanghai ( China ) and there I bought some Fishbladerglue.
2 weeks ago i tried to make Fishbladerglue.
After 5 hours by 60 degres ( 6 blaiders ).
I didn?t try to make any gluetest yet ( have to work for school ).
What do you mean ?