getting off the ground
Evening ladies and gents
Ive got some experience making reflex/deflex and straight laminated longbows. But now I want to dive into horsebows. I'm currently making a bow with a maple core and grip, and a bamboo laminate on the front. Its about 55" long so not really a horsebow. I'm looking for advice on how to go through the finishing steps, which are:
Siyahs
I want to add siyahs to it, preferably smaller, lighter ones like the Turkish bows. I can get some ash or black walnut boards to cut them from, but dont have the capacity for any kind of bending yet. Any suggestions on dimensions, angles, or grain direction, and where and how to make the nocks? And about how long should the splice be and what should I reinforce it with?
The String:
I'm thinking of making my own. heard dacron works well, where can i get it and how much should i use? Would a figure-eight knot work to make the loop? Climbers (including me) have trusted their lives to it, so why not bowstrings?
Sinew:
I was going to use sinew wraps to help secure the siyah joint and parts of the laminate. How do I work with it and will this work for what I intend?
Thanks All
[/i]
Ive got some experience making reflex/deflex and straight laminated longbows. But now I want to dive into horsebows. I'm currently making a bow with a maple core and grip, and a bamboo laminate on the front. Its about 55" long so not really a horsebow. I'm looking for advice on how to go through the finishing steps, which are:
Siyahs
I want to add siyahs to it, preferably smaller, lighter ones like the Turkish bows. I can get some ash or black walnut boards to cut them from, but dont have the capacity for any kind of bending yet. Any suggestions on dimensions, angles, or grain direction, and where and how to make the nocks? And about how long should the splice be and what should I reinforce it with?
The String:
I'm thinking of making my own. heard dacron works well, where can i get it and how much should i use? Would a figure-eight knot work to make the loop? Climbers (including me) have trusted their lives to it, so why not bowstrings?
Sinew:
I was going to use sinew wraps to help secure the siyah joint and parts of the laminate. How do I work with it and will this work for what I intend?
Thanks All
[/i]
So the question is:
"Skrew the tradition. I want to make horsebow in the easy way."
I think the easiest way to make ears is to saw vertical kerfts and
fill them with veneer and glue. Then make a form from wood
with bandsaw and clamp with C-clamps. dip the core in water for
some hours. Dip it in boiling hot water and bend to form.
It you make enough kerfs you can leave the hot water part out
and use hot tap water.
(NOTE: do not boil anything with glue.)
Leave as is for a while, it should not be hot anymore. Take out. fill with wood glue or hide glue (epoxy does not work with wet wood).
Fill the kerfs with veneer. bend again. Clamp. Leave there for 24h,
longer if hide glue is used.
http://www.perinnejousi.fi/~jkekoni/bul ... 200114.JPG
http://www.perinnejousi.fi/~jkekoni/bullet-sinew/
(123cm nock to nock, bulletwood, 45# at 65cm draw. 8cm recurve.)
If you do not have sinew you can buy yellowish dog chew bone. Dip it for 2 hours. and it is soft. cut to stripes. Glue with hide glue or with wood glue if you have no hide glue.
(NOTE: does not work as substitute for sinew backing.)
MORE: Titebond make liquid hide glue. It is easier to use and more than adequate for this purpose. It can be used to make sinew backing, but does not produce as good results as the real hide glue.
"Skrew the tradition. I want to make horsebow in the easy way."
I think the easiest way to make ears is to saw vertical kerfts and
fill them with veneer and glue. Then make a form from wood
with bandsaw and clamp with C-clamps. dip the core in water for
some hours. Dip it in boiling hot water and bend to form.
It you make enough kerfs you can leave the hot water part out
and use hot tap water.
(NOTE: do not boil anything with glue.)
Leave as is for a while, it should not be hot anymore. Take out. fill with wood glue or hide glue (epoxy does not work with wet wood).
Fill the kerfs with veneer. bend again. Clamp. Leave there for 24h,
longer if hide glue is used.
http://www.perinnejousi.fi/~jkekoni/bul ... 200114.JPG
http://www.perinnejousi.fi/~jkekoni/bullet-sinew/
(123cm nock to nock, bulletwood, 45# at 65cm draw. 8cm recurve.)
If you do not have sinew you can buy yellowish dog chew bone. Dip it for 2 hours. and it is soft. cut to stripes. Glue with hide glue or with wood glue if you have no hide glue.
(NOTE: does not work as substitute for sinew backing.)
MORE: Titebond make liquid hide glue. It is easier to use and more than adequate for this purpose. It can be used to make sinew backing, but does not produce as good results as the real hide glue.
You should make the backing narrower than the belly, if backing mapple with bamboo, since mapple does not stand full power of bamboo, you need ipe,osage,bulletwood etc for that.
Sinew backed wood core with bamboo belly is historical way for making composites.
http://www.atarn.org/FAQ/bamboo_composite.htm
http://198.170.107.188/phpBB2/viewtopic ... mboo+belly
Sinew backed wood core with bamboo belly is historical way for making composites.
http://www.atarn.org/FAQ/bamboo_composite.htm
http://198.170.107.188/phpBB2/viewtopic ... mboo+belly
I've heard of "Bulletwood" being used for medicinals and their fruit, but not for bow-making. Do you have a Latin name for the Bulletwood you're referring to? Like Ironwood, Bulletwood may be a local name for any number of species...
Yes Jkekoni, I'm cheating a bit. Longer bows are a little easier to make, and I dont want to go in over my head on this project. I plan on making many more bows, horn sinew siyahs and all.
So kerfs= thin strips of wood build up on top of the bent core to make a siyah?
The bamboo laminate I'm using is very thin, so would I have to make it that much narrower?
So kerfs= thin strips of wood build up on top of the bent core to make a siyah?
The bamboo laminate I'm using is very thin, so would I have to make it that much narrower?
<Manilkara bidentata>
Other english names are B?lata, Bullet wood, beef wood, Macaranuba and Massaranduba.
Brazilian redwood (probably ambiguaous)
Red wood used as outdoor floorings.
Kerf are the "holes" you saw into the core. Then you bend wood and glue veneer in the "holes". The core and the ears are made from same wood.
The core is redish brown and the veneer is whitish.
Other english names are B?lata, Bullet wood, beef wood, Macaranuba and Massaranduba.
Brazilian redwood (probably ambiguaous)
Red wood used as outdoor floorings.
Kerf are the "holes" you saw into the core. Then you bend wood and glue veneer in the "holes". The core and the ears are made from same wood.
The core is redish brown and the veneer is whitish.
http://ottoman-turkish-bows.com/
Good book about turkish hornbows, but does not tell much at all about alternative construction methods.
Good book about turkish hornbows, but does not tell much at all about alternative construction methods.
Aha, now that makes some sense. Unfortunately the tips of the maple core are too thin to do that, less than half an inch. I was thinking I could just cut some Siyahs from a board or an appropriately shaped tree limb and splice them in. It worked for Tom Sawyer in his composite build-along posted on this website.
Thanks for responding!
Thanks for responding!
I do not know what you mean by "thin", but you can glue more wood on the belly side to make it thicker.
There are many ways for making ears. I introduced what i think as the simplest, since I assume you wanted exacly that. Of course
if you want to make it longer then you have to add piece of wood for that.
V-splicing is traditional way for doing that and people usually use that. However the normal V-splice is supported by belly (horn) strip.
It you have none, then you should perhaps add something for this purpose. V-splice also requires the part that has the splice to be thicker than bending limb
Other ways for doing this are glueing on the core and and gluing between laminates and sawing sideways V-splice. These are usually reinforced with bindings.
There are many ways for making ears. I introduced what i think as the simplest, since I assume you wanted exacly that. Of course
if you want to make it longer then you have to add piece of wood for that.
V-splicing is traditional way for doing that and people usually use that. However the normal V-splice is supported by belly (horn) strip.
It you have none, then you should perhaps add something for this purpose. V-splice also requires the part that has the splice to be thicker than bending limb
Other ways for doing this are glueing on the core and and gluing between laminates and sawing sideways V-splice. These are usually reinforced with bindings.
yeah I was going to add another strip of wood on the belly-side of the splice and glue it in place and wrap with sinew.
The part about the splice area being thicker than the bending area was unknown to me and I greatly appreciate the advice!
The tips on the longbows i've made were thicker that way too, but I just never connected the dots. You may have saved me from disaster.
I like your idea about the glue/veneer kerfs, and I certainly like the results as seen in the pics you posted, but I am stll somewhat unclear as to how to go about doing that.
Thanks!
The part about the splice area being thicker than the bending area was unknown to me and I greatly appreciate the advice!
The tips on the longbows i've made were thicker that way too, but I just never connected the dots. You may have saved me from disaster.
I like your idea about the glue/veneer kerfs, and I certainly like the results as seen in the pics you posted, but I am stll somewhat unclear as to how to go about doing that.
Thanks!
Jkekoni; You have got to reduce the mass of the recurve. I think you are making too much of it. Did you see Hermitkings post? The siyah is bent from the limb and a wedge is added and shaped. In the other bows you reference, if there is a large club at the siyah bend, this will create hand shock and cost arrow speed greatly.
Otherwise I liked your bow shape. Remember that putting a grip riser costs nothing on arrow speed.
Otherwise I liked your bow shape. Remember that putting a grip riser costs nothing on arrow speed.
So it needs to be thicker at the siyah splice, but not too much mass or it will cause hand shock and loss of speed? Seems like there needs to be a happy medium. Ill just have to go find it!
It is picture of an incomplete bow.
It was not meant as a reference it was meant to show idea better than words.
It was not meant as a reference it was meant to show idea better than words.