Mongol Quiver 1100's-1300's
All,
I realize that due to the perishable nature of what quivers were made of, there are few extant examples of what was used during the Empire period,and that different tribes and regions had different styles. I'm looking to make a quiver that might be most representative of the "typical" Mongol style of the period. Judging by artwork of the time, and what I've seen in drawings, is it the long, flattened,narrower mouth with wider bottom? Opinions?
thanks to all who opine!
Boghadair
I realize that due to the perishable nature of what quivers were made of, there are few extant examples of what was used during the Empire period,and that different tribes and regions had different styles. I'm looking to make a quiver that might be most representative of the "typical" Mongol style of the period. Judging by artwork of the time, and what I've seen in drawings, is it the long, flattened,narrower mouth with wider bottom? Opinions?
thanks to all who opine!
Boghadair
Go read Dusan's excellent posts on bows in Russian collections.
Andrew Hall also posted hIs quiver and plans. ANOTHER WAS POSTED JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO.; I think it was Ashbow.
Andrew Hall also posted hIs quiver and plans. ANOTHER WAS POSTED JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO.; I think it was Ashbow.
What kind of quiver are interested in, an open quiver (short with protruding arrows) or a closed quiver (full length with arrows point uppermost)?
The Il-Qanid paintings show detailed representations of both types and they don't seem to have changed much from the mid-1200s.
The Il-Qanid paintings show detailed representations of both types and they don't seem to have changed much from the mid-1200s.
Bede,
Jack was kind enough to refer me to the Yuan style birch-bark reconstructions. currently I'm using an open quiver,looks sort of turkic,with Mongolian motif. nocks up,hangs from belt on right side,points angled down and posteriorly. I'd try a closed quiver with the points up,but the group I shoot with(yeah, SCA) would likely have coronaries. it would also require a total revamp of my style(very likely not a bad thing. I'm not shooting horseback. I know some styles orient the arrows point down-ward anteriorly. where would I find these pics?
Thanks
Boghadair
Jack was kind enough to refer me to the Yuan style birch-bark reconstructions. currently I'm using an open quiver,looks sort of turkic,with Mongolian motif. nocks up,hangs from belt on right side,points angled down and posteriorly. I'd try a closed quiver with the points up,but the group I shoot with(yeah, SCA) would likely have coronaries. it would also require a total revamp of my style(very likely not a bad thing. I'm not shooting horseback. I know some styles orient the arrows point down-ward anteriorly. where would I find these pics?
Thanks
Boghadair
There is no historical evidence of open quivers with the points facing posteriorly. All traditional open quivers have the nocks posterior and the points anterior.
What you would be interested in is the quivers in the Rashid ed-Din manuscripts of his world history. Two good examples date from the early 1300s and the mid 1300s. The Edinburgh manuscript is the earlier. The Diez manuscript is very detailed.
What you would be interested in is the quivers in the Rashid ed-Din manuscripts of his world history. Two good examples date from the early 1300s and the mid 1300s. The Edinburgh manuscript is the earlier. The Diez manuscript is very detailed.
Bede,
Thanks. Didn't mean I thought I was doing it historically! I realize Nock-ends up and forward is the modern/western construct. that's how I started because the quiver I bought through Grozer has the decoration oriented that way. to flip it means that all will be hidden against the thigh. but I will start practicing that way, with Stephen's Chinese-style arrow-loading technique. it will be good for my brain,at least.
please, where on-line might I see the Rashid-al-Din drawings?
Thanks,
Boghadair
Thanks. Didn't mean I thought I was doing it historically! I realize Nock-ends up and forward is the modern/western construct. that's how I started because the quiver I bought through Grozer has the decoration oriented that way. to flip it means that all will be hidden against the thigh. but I will start practicing that way, with Stephen's Chinese-style arrow-loading technique. it will be good for my brain,at least.
please, where on-line might I see the Rashid-al-Din drawings?
Thanks,
Boghadair
I am not quite sure. I think one of the Turkish universities has some folios on line. One copy of the Jami' al-Tawarikh is in Edinburgh and a later one is in Berlin. Both have been published. There are two books on the Edinburgh copy and the Diez album has been partially published in numerous catalogues.
Here is one source on line that has some early Mongol quivers.
http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html
These are from albums in the Topkapi Palace Collection. The Jala'irids were a Mongol successor state and there art had strong connections with the techniques pioneered by the artists working for Rashid ed-Din.
http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/topkapi.html
These are from albums in the Topkapi Palace Collection. The Jala'irids were a Mongol successor state and there art had strong connections with the techniques pioneered by the artists working for Rashid ed-Din.
Bede,
thanks, that gives me ideas.
Boghadair
thanks, that gives me ideas.
Boghadair