Questions for MB bow.

Lurz

The originals used bows plates at the sides of the grip, so either construction could be used for either weight without problems. The choice is more to do with the woods available. Unfortunately I have no experience of hazel in composites, but if choosing between maple and ash, I would use the maple in the heavier bow (glues well and ring-porous wood is more consistent).

It is uncertain how the siyahs of the originals were constructed, as the only information on them seems to imply that they are one piece with the limb (which could be done by either selecting naturally bent pieces of wood or expert bending). I have used your option "A" without problems. Option "B" has more risk of the limb wood peeling away from the siyah piece under load (although this would be a slight risk with bone side plates and a sinew backing).

I suspect that the photo looking more like "B" is due to seeing the bone plate.

The radius of bend will depend drastically on the thickness, grain and your technique. Try some experiments on some off-cuts. I am not an expert at bending wood, but one thing I have learnt is to keep the wood fairly consistent in width and thickness otherwise the bend will ignore the form and concentrate in the narrow or thin sections. The smaller MB bow has quite curved limb/siyah joints anyway.

I would put some taper into the limbs to spread the bend down the limb.

Andrew

Thanks a lot!
Clear answes to all questons!
But I forgot one. I was considering to make the belly of the core very slighty convex, at the same time keeping the horn flat. That way I was hoping to get better distribution of the pressure when gluing with the rope metod. The parts will be grooved, but not matching. Good or bad idea?

Andrew,
I think Type B is the normal siyah construction for antler eared bows in Xinjiang, at least in the earlier period. Though I qualify that by saying that the last few centimetres including the nock were pure antler without any wooden core. Bone or antler strips have been excavated with a bifurcated construction, i.e. split from the base almost to the nock. I have no measurements only archaeologists' drawings. From the shape, I would guess that they were for smaller eared bows.

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I decided to try both constructions in the first post, and have finished two cores.The first (lower) is made of maple with handle like "B" in the first post. (norwegian maple, probably "Acer platanoides") Both bows have steambent siyahs. The first bow have siyah constructon like "A" I plan to make this bow pull around 60 pounds. (Unfortunately the angels of the bows crept back a little after bending, I would have liked them a little steeper.)

The second (top) core has a handle like "A", and I decided to experimented by making the core of hazel. (There has been good results with hazel self-bows, and another post here suggest maybe trying new woods) This second bow have siyah construction "B". Thinking of the forces, I have started to wonder if this acualy looks stronger than "A"? This bow I plan to make maybe 80-100pounds.

I have now glued the horn on the first (maple) bow. clamping with the rope metod. To get good glue pressure I made the core (very) slightly convex, and the horn flat. But as Adam warned in his book, I got some lengthwise cracks in the horn. Horns probably not warm enough? Except from this the gluing looks good. Question is, will this harm the bow much? Should I take the horns of, trow them away, and make new ones? Or can I go on with the bow?

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While on the subject of MB bows. I have made a simple bowquiver in impregnated linen based on the picture above, posted by Dusan, (thanks!) and others I have seen. But it is hard to see from the pictures what material it is made of. And the round thing in the middle that looks like leather, is it decoraton, or for practical purpose? Has anyone seen this or know anything?

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Also, do anyone know of an open Quiver that would match an MB-bow? I have made a quiver like the above, based on, I think it was, Bedes pattern, but I suspect it don't really match a MB-bow, beeing more turkic. Would something like this, also posted by Dusan, be right? Any suggestions?
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Hi lurz, i like you use pics from me. Because this i post pics :D . Balka bowquiver is from leather.Hazel core is... maybe bad choise.Hazel is not that wood. I try some years ago vith bad experiences. But who know, maybe northern hazel was better than ours.
I dont know how from Balka bows is your replicas example, but that from mi pics haevnt high reflex handle like you have. Here is pic about handle stile gluening one from Balka bows:

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another pic :

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Here is Balka arrows quiver :

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Your ears are in small angle, i think. And if you closer see- Original Balka ears are in another shape too...

Regarding the open quiver:
It is a very nice job. It has excellent proportions and decoration.

When you make a quiver like this, it is always best to make a belt with it. The buckle or belt hook should be on the same side as the quiver since this is where the most weight is and it is easier to hold the buckle and thread the tongue of the belt through. There also should be some method of fixing the support straps in place on the belt, either slots or metal fittings.

The style of the quiver is 16-17th century and might be too late for the MB bow, but it is a good quiver and practical to use.

Dusan, thanks, the bowquiver is leather then. I'll use that when I make one for real. Also found Bedes post on the end of this thread:
http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1876 Real helpful!
Nobody knows what the strange, round leather-looking thingy in the middle of the bowquiver is?
Also, I have seen the closed quivers, and know that they are right for a MB-bow. I was just wondering if there had been found any short open quivers from the same time/region, maybe something like the picture I found in your post?

Bede, thank you, yes the quiver is ok in use, it was made before I decided to try for a MB-bow, and I suspected it was not right period, so I'm trying to find something a bit more correct now. Oh, and please disregard my belt, it was just an old one I found and used for testing at the time. But I'll consider making som metal fittings!

The bow I know is not quite right. I started from Andrew Hall's drawings, and the picture Dusan posted, but the siyahs strightend out a little after steam bending, and I can see I have not got the handle right. But I don't think the angle between thw arms looks to far off? And the siyahs is not shaped yet.

But my most important question:
I have glued the horn to the core, clamping with the rope metod. To get good pressure I made the core very slightly convex, and the horn flat. Unfortunately I got some lengthwise cracks in the horn. (as warned against, probably horn not warm enough?) Except from this the gluing looks good. Should I take the horns of and trow them away, and make new ones? Or can I go on with the bow? As I think Persian bows was made with strips of parralel horn strips? Anyone know?

Some Persian and some Indian bows were made with parallel strips. At least one Hunza bow I saw had gaps between the strips of 1-2 mm wide. I think Adam might have some good ideas on this question. The Persian and Indian bows had sinew on the belly too, but the Hunza bow was more roughly made.

The problem I would worry about is whether the horn has bonded successfully to the core.

On quivers: there are some open quivers know of the approximate age of the MB bow, give or take a hundred years. One is shown on a mural in a palace from the Umayyad period. It has two suspension points on the leading edge and covers 3/5ths to 3/4s of the arrows' length exposing the fletching and a small part of the shaft. It has the nocks facing backwards.

The standard Sasanian quiver was worn vertically with the nocks of the arrows at or below waist level. Most or all of the fletching was visible. There were three evenly spaced suspension straps attached to the inside edge of the opening of the quiver. This is almost certainly a military quiver and was used from the 220s until almost the end of the Sasanian period in the 600s. Towards the end of the dynasty, closed quivers appear in the rock art at Taq-e Bustan.

Lurz
I think it was a mistake to make the horn flat and the core convex. The surfaces must be almost perfectly matching (concave-convex). The best is to round the outer surface of the horn as much as possible (thinner at the edges). The core should be wider than the horn to take the highest pressure exerted by the rope. Even in this case the horn can crack. If the cracks are small (you should hardly feel by your nail) you can go on. Post a picture of the crack.
S?ndor

Thanks for answers both of you. Sorry I have been slow to reply, but I had taken a picture of the cracks, but got problems uploading.

It was obviously a mistake to make the horn flat and core convex, but I thougt it was so little it would be ok. The crack is about 0.3mm at the widest, so it is quite easy to both feel an see. I think the glue bond is good, but I do not like that one crack is not quite straight. So all together I have decided to play it safe and discard the horns. Thanks for the other tips on gluing Paku, will try that next time. And Bede, thanks for quiver tips.

So!
After a long time, and some mistakes, my second hornbow is finally shooting.
It's made from the bottom core in the picture of the two cores posted above earlier, the one whit the splice in the handle.

The core is made of maple, a little less than 4mm thick, horn is about the same, total thickness at midlimb, 10.5mm. NtN along the belly unstrung is 122cm. String length on the picture is 115cm, It weighs 480grams, and pulls about 53 pounds @ 28", about ten pounds less than I was aiming for. Draw length in the bottom picture is at 28". Core and horn is glued with the rope method, and with non-matching groves.

It has so far shot a little more than ten arrows at full draw.
A question would be if the ears should have been angled a little more, to be a little closer to parallel with he string in the strung position?
Any comments welcome!

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Lurz; This is a really grand bow. My congratulations on an authentic build. The strung shape looks good to me. There is every variation in space between string and ear, as seen in artwork. Because of the problematic nature of the overlaid grip and the reflex there, many Hunnic type bows have a sinew wrapped grip. The same goes for the bend at the ear.

Builders of Turkic type bows disfavor this detail but it is a common element in archaeological finds. V splicing balances the core joinery better but this had not been discovered yet, had it?

Nice bow.

congratulations, good work
I also think the MB bow had a slightly steeper angle, but anyway you have proved one possible original design.

Thanks both!
And of course to all of ATARN. Had it not been for this forum and Adams book, there would have been no bow.
Jack: I had planned to use sinew wrapping as you suggest. I just wanted to see if it would shoot before i made bark or rawhide covering, then sinew on the outside. Of course a risk to shoot it fist.....

lars

The sinew should not be wrapped as it is on an arrow nock but a bundle of processed leg sinew, the same as the backing, is wound spirally over the area. Several more laid parallel fill in the space, all at about 30 to 45 degrees. This lays very flat and is also covered by the birch bark as it is also susceptible to moisture.

I believe that winding with string only mimics repairs done after damage occurred.

Hello lurz.
I worked exactly the plan of Andrew Hall. to me the syiahs are more parallel with he string in the strung position. what is the cross section of your syiahs? what material are made handle and syiahs plates? perhaps water buffalo horn?

PAZUZU

Thanks Jack, that of course makes sense, the sinew wrapping flat under the covering!
I have been away shooting during the weekend, and the bow survived some more arrows at full draw, so I will finish it now. I may be using rawhide on the back instead of bark, though. That would mean the wrapping exposed on the belly, any suggestions about waterproofing that part?

Pazuzu: Yes, i thoght I had seen some bows like that too. Cross section of syiahs is roughly rectangular, about 13 x 18 mm just inside the nocks. Handle and siyah plates are water buffalo, scraps from the horns for the belly.

Go with bark. It has no weight.

Then it's finished!
Thanks for telling me to try birchbark. It worked quite well in the end. Initially it was frustrating, because the bark would not keep down as I tried to glue it on. But after I made the bark even thinner, and found a technique to twist 3-5cm strips from plastic bags around the bow to tie the bark down as I put it on, it became quite easy. I left them on for maybe a small hour until the glue gelled, then I could remove the plastic to let the glue dry properly. The decorations is taken from early medieval belt ends finds fram Crimea, and painted with green earth pigment in egg and hide glue as binder. Thanks again all, without ATARN it would be no bow!

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and I see from the picure that the arrow-pass should be moved down a little...
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Wow that's a beautiful bow!!
I hope to make a bow like this as well.
What did you use to make the horn so nice and shiny, shellac?

Indeed, beautiful! I love the last picture: How wonderful to see it on the line with all those modern FITA-bows!

niiice :D
gratulations !

alex27 wrote:

What did you use to make the horn so nice and shiny, shellac?

That last finish is a concession to practicality and to our norwegian cimate :wink:
Not shellac, but a kind of boat varnish, consisting of linseed oil and chinese tung-oil, two layers, applied thin with a rag ball. No solvent.

Bravo!!!! Very nice, I like the birch bark. Enjoy.

The bow has a very pleasant shape and looks very authentic. Here is an idea for a future bow of the same type: try antler instead of horn in the ears. Horn is great in the bending parts of the limbs but it is not as stiff as certain woods by weight and is just extra mass in the ears. If the ears are made with antler they can be made narrower, with a reduction in weight compared to the horn and an increase in stiffness compared to wood.

When the Old Turks in the eighth century stopped using antler for their bow tips in Mongolia, there was an noticeable increase in the volume of the tips. However, I imagine that they had made the change because of some benefit from the use of all wood ears, whether in the construction of the bows or in their performance. It is unlikely that they did it because of the scarcity of antlers.

A bow like yours is a good starting point to experiment with the performance of bows of the same shape but with different construction. Several bowyers in this forum have made excellent bows of this class and there might be some benefits to them and us if they got together (web wise) and did some comparative testing.

Thanks all!
I hope to start some new bows in a short while. Any suggestions for construction is very welcome! I have some antler from reindeer, so that's one idea I will be interested in trying.
Regarding comparison testing I guess it would mean shooting trough a chronograph. That would be interesting, I don't have one, but guess it might be arranged given some time.

I hope to make two bows, one in the 50-60 pound range, as a target bow, and one at some 80+ pounds to get closer to the original. One core will be made from local maple. (that is probably Acer platanoides or Acer pseudoplatanus here), the other from ash. I also have hazel available. Anyone have experience with that for hornbows? A norwegian shot 325m with a hazel selfbow!

.........about Hazel!
In Norway like here in Latvia grows same exact hazel species - it is the same. I make my selfbows from hazel, it is very good for making self and sinew backed bows for it relative compression abilities to its lightness, but talking about horn bows, hazel cores have tendency to be fragile. When hazel is too dry the bow back in limbs tends to be fragile, make sure if there?s still some degree of moisture in it at least 10 % . For gluing horn, wood, sinew - wood needs to be very dry. I'm using thin cores about 3,8 - 4,5 mm for my horn bows. Before gluing horn to wood I am heating wood in my oven about half an hour and only then apply glue every 6 ? 10 minutes continuing heating the wood. It takes for Hazel about 8 layers of sinew glue. Deep penetration of sinew glue gives hazel core additional strength. Some 2 years ago, I made small experiment with hazel. One sample was saturated with sinew glue in above-mentioned method and other sample was just dried. Both where sap wood with undamaged year rings on the back, 4mm thick, 36mm wide and 72 cm long. Both was from one log - about 25-29 cm in diameter, cut down in winter ?month-old moon? ( it is the time when moisture levels in all growing trees in our climate (Latvia ? Norway it is the same) is less than ever - it prevents cracking and twisting, of course dried in air ,shady, draft place with small moisture content (old shed place will do the job) at minimum 2 years for hazel in non split log condition? according to my ancestors knowledge)). The tree was cut down in almost top of wooden hill (about 250 ? 280 m above see level) south side of it (in my experience Hazel in Latvia twists less in such places than growing in foothill or plain or in swamps) in such places I have collected hazel in straight grain, 20- 30cm logs without branches in 2-3 m high in ordinary environment it is impossible to find). So the first sample resisted way to stronger than other. I finally broke both. Sample with penetrated glue bended 30 % farther than sample 2, and tendency to get back in starting position was obvious. I think that deep penetration of sinew or fish glue is very important for making hornbows, the wood core is not just wood in horn bows it is impregnated complex material. My hazel core failed in 4 bows, before I done above-mentioned method of glue penetration. It is a only hazel core bow that I sold and I never heard complaints from the owner. That is my experience with hazel I hope it helps in your work.
Sorry for English!!!

Thank you for sharing your experience.

What do you mean with 30% more bending ? the angle or radius ?

I'd like to mention this citation from Arab Archery here:
The best bows are those the horn of which is made of four to six pieces, or a little more or less, and the glue of which is plentiful, since the more glue the bow has, the harder it becomes, the more strongly its arrow travels, and the better it is in every respect; in fact, the quality of the bow depends on the glue.

:D

Uli wrote:

Thank you for sharing your experience.

What do you mean with 30% more bending ? the angle or radius ?

I'd like to mention this citation from Arab Archery here:
The best bows are those the horn of which is made of four to six pieces, or a little more or less, and the glue of which is plentiful, since the more glue the bow has, the harder it becomes, the more strongly its arrow travels, and the better it is in every respect; in fact, the quality of the bow depends on the glue.

:D

The test was very simple. I just clamped one end of sample in legvice and tried to pull other with exstension pipe and fixed breaking position. The sample saturated with glue was harder to brake compered to simple with no glue. It took very long time and fibers started to brake not in the midle but right next to jaws of legvice. Sample with no glue breaked practicly in midle. So it was obvios to me that deep penetration of sinew glue makes wood fibers perform better. This is one of the reasons why I make my cores very thin in sal section. In my opinion wooden core is not just wood, it is complex. I will try to make experiments with horn saturated with glue. Right now i just cant get enough similar horn samples and it is very expencive in large amounts if you bay water buffalo horns.

That's a very interesting theory about saturating the wood with glue!

About Hazel. My own experiences are from selfbows, and that they have the tendency to chrysal after long usage. Heat treating the wood works fine. Never used it for a hornbow, I use ash.

alex27 wrote:

That's a very interesting theory about saturating the wood with glue!

About Hazel. My own experiences are from selfbows, and that they have the tendency to chrysal after long usage. Heat treating the wood works fine. Never used it for a hornbow, I use ash.

Yeas long usage for hazel is obvious isue. That's becouse it gets to dry, It is main reason why I used sinew glue in my core. This is not the best wood for horn bow , but if this core is saturated with glue it will change working fibers and will do the job.
If you making selfbows and sinew backed bows out of hazel make sure that there is moisture left in wood and never put those bows in very warm place for long time. It is only way to keep hazel bows last litle bit longer.

Have you equilibrated the laths at the same humidity for the tests after all that heating etc?? A few days should be enough for 4mm lath, but I would wait two weeks just in case.

I tried at one time to soak maple laths in hot glue for days. The glue was stained with a little dye to see the effects, but I found the penetration of glue was minimal and could not make any difference for a bow.

At the same time the thorough coating of the wood with several layers of hot thin glue definitely helps adhesion.

Adam

Adam Karpowicz wrote:

Have you equilibrated the laths at the same humidity for the tests after all that heating etc?? A few days should be enough for 4mm lath, but I would wait two weeks just in case.

I tried at one time to soak maple laths in hot glue for days. The glue was stained with a little dye to see the effects, but I found the penetration of glue was minimal and could not make any difference for a bow.

At the same time the thorough coating of the wood with several layers of hot thin glue definitely helps adhesion.

Adam

If "equilibrate" is the same meaning of word drying in controled conditions than yes, but no open heat or lamps was used only space with constant humidity and draft . Only think I some time use after gluing is heating pads. I notest that if i use sinew glue, there is no way to speed up drying process I waited about month and a half or two.
I have to apologize to Adam I haven?t read his book jet. So far did not know that book exists (this will be the first thing that I will do) and that there is a place like atarn.net, where to my big surprise people have practiced this tradition of bow making . At least I do not feel alone in this tradition.
If we are talking about a sinew or fish bladders glue! I have a question for Adam. Have you ever tried to put sinew on the bow as long as the tree dries to reduce total drying time? How sinew or fish bladder glues, behave on wood staves with high moisture level? The question is in the context of sinew backed bows. I would be very grateful for good advice ...

Thanks!

Thank you for sharing R.Arins!
I made a core from hazel, but as other things got in the way, and hearing others was quite doubtful about hazel in hornbows, it's just been sitting around. If I decide to continue working on it it would be very interesting to try your glue method!
My hazel longbow (Hedeby type) seems to be in quite good shape, but then again, in Norway it would probably not become to dry....

Thanks again!

Method is not my! This thing with glue saturation is actualy how I was taught to do by my grandfather! I know that chinese horn bows are made this way and actualy some bowiers and carpenters use this method while working with sinew or air bladder glue every time gluing components together! I was told that this method is only proper way to use animal glue. I just transfered this method to my sinew backed bows and I notest that improves wood fibers. In case of hazel i just tried to make deeper penetration. It woorked very well.
Don't give up with hazel! It can be wery cool and comon material to work with and I seen light hazel selfbows in thin/wide limb designe accurately hitting targets with very small trajectory in range of 50 - 70 m and shoot up to 280m with ordinary self made arows. It is enough to kill a deer or small game.

No, I have not tried to apply sinew to green wood. I heard of it done, but do not remember the outcome. I imagine the glue may not stick well to very wet wood. And if the limbs are thin under sinew, the wood may crack as the glue/sinew layer dries and contracts across the limb. The method obviously has no use in hornbows.

Adam

Oh, but I have very much respect for hazel as a bow-wood. And they don't even need to be light. A 100pound hazel bow held the norwegian flight record for all-wood bows with 333m until Kviljo beat it some years ago! It was the first to shoot more than 300m in Norway.
And I have not quite given up on the core. "Its just .... resting" :)

After some other projects, I've finally got around to finish the second core I started.

Core is hazel, steam bent in the handle, with an extra handle block, like "A", in the handle-sketch at the start of this thread.
The ears are spliced on the outside of the bend, like "B" in the sketch of ears at the start.

The wood got several layers of thin warm glue before gluing the horns. Bending over tepeliks, and stringing seemed to go well so far. (Thanks R.Arins)
The bow is about 10 mm thick in the middle of working limbs, the same as my other bow here, so I expect the same draw weight, around 50 pounds. Ntn is about 125cm along back, 3.4cm at broadest part of limb.

Unstrung the bow looks quite straight, however, with the string on it shows quite some unbalance, so I have not pulled it more than a couple of inches yet.
When I look at the picture to the right, I think the way to correct it is to scrape the horn carefully on the right side on the limb furthest from the camera, while on the nearest limb the ear need to be heated and bent to the left?

Any thoughts?

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Bit late advice but
think the bottom limb (left) have a nice bend, but the top have a week spot after the grip fade and need some horn scrapping aftre that, than have to ballance the limbs again. May it needs some more scrap from the bottom limb too.
If like to reduce the limb twists and side bends, than scrap from the stronger side. Mean that side which "push" the limb harder because it stronger at compression( the opposit of the direction of the bend). Scrap just from that side of the belly and make a slight crowned shape on the horn. Not reduce too much in one step, check it time to time on tiller tree.

Thanks! I can see weak spot now.
But before your reply I used heat and did some scraping to correct twist and bends. Felt it went ok, but as I tried to string the bow again there was a loud crack. One limb became nearly straight, the other bent a lot. And when I tried to put the bow down it shed the string an jumped away from me. I first thought the bow was gone, but to at least learn something, I put it in water. After a couple of days I could remove the sinew. It seems it was just the sinew that let go, and the horn and core was unharmed. Looks like I can just put new sinew on. Or reuse the sinew I took of
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Sorry to see that. I'm interested how the hazel works for a core. Did the sinew detach from the core itself or was it between layers?
I've got a Turkish style bow in my bath at the moment because the core broke due to too thin sinew....

Didn't look like the sinew separated from core. Rather something slipped between layers I think. Hard to see after the sinew was softened in the water.
I also want to see how hazel works for the core. Think it was promising the core did not break as the sinew gave in. Will sinew again over the summer, other projects have to come first just now.

Sand the surface with 40 grit paper before put the new layer of sinew on.
Thick layer of glue between the sinew layers schould make problams. And take care to don't touch the surface before glueing.

Good luck for the repair! ;)

Hi lurz! Watch out for drying the cord too quickly.It may deeply affect the quality of the glue it may turnout to be fragile. I am very interested in way, you created the actual core. You splited wood or used the planer?
Dryed hazel retains the ability to absorb a good amount of glue as it turned out after my experiments because density of the hazel is not particularly high (at least in my country, I think it should be in Norway to ) so there is a place for glue in the wood if compared to the other bow woods used for cores for example, maple, ash, acacia, currant and hazel is light and have no oils in it and it is very common tree. Waiting forward to your outcome to compare with my experiments! Good job.

Hazel is light ?

Are we talking about the same thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corylus_avellana

It is heavier that birch and about the same as maple.

Jep, it is the one. We are talking about dried wood only! Maple is a bit heavier and denser, but insignificant heavier. Birches is a very interesting topic. ! Density of birch and weight is very different from where they grow. It can be very light wood and havy also it depends where they grow! BUT it can be sufficiently porous ....It made ​​me think about that when I first heard from my grandfather he said that such bows made at Lake Baikal when he was deported as a prisoner of war to Siberia and he told me the core was made from birch...Strange!! birches are generally much stronger when they are full of water , but birch retains the ability to separate the year rings one from another in laths if you cut them in winter in a bent position ( method is "very" dangerous). You mean Karelian birch ? I do not have experience working with Karelian birch only made one knive handle out of one small peace.

Thanks for feedback, all!
Yes, we are talking Hazelnut. As far as I can see there is not that much difference in density between Bich, Hazel and Maple, when you take into account that all species can vary quite a lot.
Think the core dried quite nicely, and will remember to sand when I get aroud to put new sinew on it.
R.Arins - the core was made by making flat the side away from the bark, forming, heat-bending and gluing the core. After that the bark side was made flat, and the core reduced in thikness with a rasp before horn was glued on. So, guess it would be nearest to what you call "planer"?

When the sinew layers delaminate you can tap the area with your finger tip and the delaminated section will make a different noise. Then you can investigate further.

Hazel bow finally finished. Not much of a bow really, just 32# @23", not 100% straight, and some lengthwise cracks in the horn.. At this draw length the string angle is nearly 90 degrees, and it stacks hard. Seems I got the siyah angle all wrong. Sinew is cowered with thin rawhide, paint is egg/oil tempera and natural pigments.
But at least the repair worked, and the hazel core is holding up for now. A little more than 50 shots at full draw I would guess. Thanks for all help, think I'm finished with it now....

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Sucesfull horn bow, is a great thing.

I have been saying hazel works, if you use wood that has been dried before immersing. This has been my experience when bending the wood.
It bends almoust as well as mapple.

Unfortunalely I have not been able to make a functioning bow for various reasons, not including hazel.

Now I would say that we have established that hazel is sound wood for core.

NOTE:If you boil green hazel or immersed green hazel that has not been dried, then it is likely to make problems and is certainly NOT recommended.

Jkekoni - Why do you think there is this difference you have noticed between dried and green hazel?

Lurz, Nice bow. Working hornbow is always something and always can hit better whit new one.
Maybe it is risky to try more heavy bow from hazel... Or over 50lbs
Kasan angles looks quite low to my eye and thats reason for heavy stackin. I made that mistake whit my first Ottoman bow.
But it looks good!

lurz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:19 pm

Then it's finished!
Thanks for telling me to try birchbark. It worked quite well in the end. Initially it was frustrating, because the bark would not keep down as I tried to glue it on. But after I made the bark even thinner, and found a technique to twist 3-5cm strips from plastic bags around the bow to tie the bark down as I put it on, it became quite easy. I left them on for maybe a small hour until the glue gelled, then I could remove the plastic to let the glue dry properly. The decorations is taken from early medieval belt ends finds fram Crimea, and painted with green earth pigment in egg and hide glue as binder. Thanks again all, without ATARN it would be no bow!

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and I see from the picure that the arrow-pass should be moved down a little...
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very nice bow! how long the seasoning time for this bow?

Six years ago now I can see from the "finished" post, so it's hard to remember. But I would think somewhere between 4 and 6 moths. Probably closer to 4, impatient.
But i'm happy to say it's still my main shooting bow :D , after a repair after a small delaminating close to the siyah. To short horn. Had to retiller a bit, so it lost some pounds, a bit over 40 now I think.